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One more example of foolishness of over smart serial producers:
Please read and weep!
http://www.esakal.com/today/home7.html
Again and again these mad producers are tricked into producing such vernacular stuff. Years back there was such an effort to dub Jungle Book into Marathi and progressive families rightly rejected that. That effort failed miserably as expected. I don't understand why are you trying to turn back the hands of the clock?
Progress oriented families want to expose their children to English more and more and such foolish efforts are going to deprive them from watching English serials.
I am sure all the like-minded people will oppose this like ever, not by entering into debate but silently rejecting it by refraining from watching it.
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Bhm (Bhm)
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| | Saturday, August 18, 2001 - 5:17 pm: | 
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>One more example of foolishness of over smart
>serial producers:
>Please read and weep!
>http://www.esakal.com/today/home7.html
sudharak,
Stay away from these damned vernaculars. You give one link and rather than honoring it, they change the contents to some absolutely irrelevant stuff! Can't they understand that a progressive person has used this link to make an important prophecy? Oh God! These vernaculars! So rude!
It's utterly inappropriate to pull the rug from under you like this.
p.s. In short, the link which you have given does not have the news item which you want us to see.
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Bhm,
You are right. It was my mistake. See this link
from the archives.
http://www.esakal.com/20010817/home7.html
Now read and weep as I suggested earlier!
Thanks a lot for the follow up.
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Sudharak,
What is your problem if people want to see Jungle book in MaraThee? Any Author feels honoured if his literature is translated. So would Mr. Kipling, if he were alive. Loving or learning English dose not equate to hating or rating other languages low.
Secondly, what do you mean by Progressive? Do you think Baba Amate, Dr. Anil Awachat, Vidya BaL are not progressive? Their children studied in Verna-medium.
Aho Sudharak, apalya matancha duragrahach dharayacha asel tar nidan he naw taree gheoo naka ho! Moolche Sudharak (Agarkaar)-tyanchee bayako dew-dew kareet ase wa te tila tysaThee Band kar ase sangat nasat. Te naw ghyayache tar itaka udar druShtikon hawa.
Han, ata fakt wadasaThee wad ya nyayane tumhee Time-pass karat asal tar tase sanga. Khare tar 'Maaybolee'war tumhee ka yeta koN jaNe?
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Sudharak,
What is your problem if people want to see Jungle book in MaraThee? Any Author feels honoured if his literature is translated. So would Mr. Kipling, if he were alive. Loving or learning English dose not equate to hating or rating other languages low.
Secondly, what do you mean by Progressive? Do you think Baba Amate, Dr. Anil Awachat, Vidya BaL are not progressive? Their children studied in Verna-medium.
Aho Sudharak, apalya matancha duragrahach dharayacha asel tar nidan he naw taree gheoo naka ho! Moolche Sudharak (Agarkaar)-tyanchee bayako dew-dew kareet ase wa te tila tysaThee Band kar ase sangat nasat. Te naw ghyayache tar itaka udar druShtikon hawa.
Han, ata fakt wadasaThee wad ya nyayane tumhee Time-pass karat asal tar tase sanga. Maayboleewar yeoon MarTheela wirodh he jara weird nahee watat tumhala?
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bhm AaiNa sauQaarkÊ
jyaaMnaa ek http link kXaI VayacaI ho samajat nahI AXyaa illiterate maaNasaaMnaI Aklaocao jaast dIvao pajaLU nayaot.
http://www.esakal.com/today/home7.html hI ilaMk tumhalaa rÜja vaogavaogaLo pana naaih ka daKvaNaarÆ
AaiNa tumhI ek gaÜYT laxaat GyaaÊ tumacaI saarasaar ivacaar krNyaacaI laayakIca naahI. tumacyaa matavar kih va>vya krNyaacaI sauQQaa kILsa yaoto. shame on you .
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Beti, Imtushar,
I shall like to answer you but before I do that, Please see this desperate attempt by some journalist to 'save' Marathi.
http://www.loksatta.com/daily/20010820/lokviv1.htm
He thinks just by using some catchy emotional phrases in his suggestions, he is going to attract a majority following. More than anything else, this is a clear indication of how the situation is when a war is being lost!
I am sure; progress minded families and wise people would not waste their time to read such stuff and are sure to ignore it as silently as ever.
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Sudharak...
ha murkhapanaa aahe he malapan samajte, pan progressiveness aani vernacular lok yabaddal tumcha jo samaj aahe na, to chukicha aahe. tumche wichar eka kaagadaawar liha aani tya kaagdache pudhe kaay karaayche he shahaNyaalaa sangane na lage. yapeksha bari comment karta aali asti malaa, pan tumchyasarkhya lokansathi hech theek aahe.
Jay maharashtra.
FYI, hi marathi site aahe, tari tumhi thoda sudharakpaNa karun ithun pudhe nighun gelat tar tumchyasathi (aani itar jagaasaathi) te faar bare hoil ase nahi ka tumhala waaTat?
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sudharak,
mi to lekh sampurna wachla, aani tyaat thodefaar tathya aahe ase malahi watte. marathit bolNyaacha aagraha maharashtrat aapan dharaylach hawa.
Bhashik asmita mhaNje kahi agdich cheshtecha wishay nahiye.... bare hoil tumchyasarkhya lokanni swatahala marathi mhanwun ghene sodun dile tar... aani tumhi te progressiveness chya nawakhali sadhdhya karat asaalach ashi maaybolichya premakhatar aasha baaLagto.
Tushar
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Beti,
I only have heard about the people you mentioned in your posting. I do not know about their family background. But since you seem to be knowing them well, let us for a moment assume that their children are/were going to vernacular schools. As far as my knowledge about their ages goes, their grand children must be going to schools now. How about them? Are they too are going to vernacular schools? ... May be
yes.
Now tell me one thing. How many families you know in which the grand parents were going to English medium schools and grand children are going to vernacular schools? Find out the ratio of such families with the ones in which grand parents were going to vernacular schools but grand children are going to English schools. The ratio will be a very small number if not zero.
This clearly indicates the social trend.
Now tell me why such a trend would be there, if the society did not see any benefit in that? So the society has already found out the trend to follow (the progressive trend) and they do follow it silently, without getting into any sort of debate.
Thus any call, which indicates any sort of reverse trend, is not going to succeed. Instead one should encourage people in what they are already (and rightly) doing.
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>This clearly indicates the social trend.
>Now tell me why such a trend would be there, if
>the society did not see any benefit in that? So
>the society has already found out the trend to
>follow (the progressive trend) and they do
>follow it silently, without getting into any
>sort of debate.
Hello Sudharak the progressive,
Let's apply your logic to a few other situations:
How many MP's used to throw microphones in the parliament? How many MP's
used to wrestle, shout obscenities in the parliament?
None. But today, it's a regular feature in a parliament session. So now the social trend is to elect rowdies and rascals as our MP's. Anyone trying to go against this is anti-progressive.
Another situation:
40 years back, in how many govt. offices you needed to bribe before you got any paper moved?
Not too many. Today, what do we see? Bribe is almost as sine qua non as the official paperwork and fee. So the social trend is to grow corruption which is the progressive trend. Any stupid leader that speaks about reducing this is counter progressive scumbag. He should be arrested and prosecuted. Right?
Another case, what was our population 40 years back and what is it today? So the progressive trend is that of population explosion
Another case, how many slums were there in Mumbai 40 years back? A few. How many now? a lot. So the trend is to have more and more slums. So
doing anything to prevent it is counter progressive.
Do you need any more absurd examples to make you see the point or have you seen it already?
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are sudharak baryach divasanni alas re..:)
masta re. surekh postings taktos. tu alas ki ran kase petun uthate ekdam. tuzya postings vachun ha bb agadich ras-hin vatato...:):)
keep it up...
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Bhm,
No. I do not need any examples to prove or disprove my point.
You probably do need a few! (to prove my point).
You have chosen a few good examples to disprove my point. However they do not prove any point to compensate either. Do you wish to make a point which these examples of yours will make or prove?
Is it your point that WHENEVER people follow WHATEVER trend, they do so blindly and foolishly?
Think of other trends when people started wearing better clothes, started living in better houses (whenever it was possible for them)...May be these examples are incomplete or even inappropriate; I really neither wish nor need to give any examples. I (and other progressive families) have clearly seen the benefits and advantages of sending our children to English medium schools.
In case, you cannot move ahead without having an example, think of other such situations when people follow a trend appropriately and wisely. When you find one, try to compare that with the one I explained.
So, what kind of trend will you call it when more and more people are sending their children to English Medium schools? (Think of all of your good friends, relatives and loved ones before you make a statement!)
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Bhm (Bhm)
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| | Monday, August 20, 2001 - 10:01 pm: |
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Sudharak,
The point I am making is that just because too many people are following a trend does not make that trend necessarily progressive. When there is an interaction with another culture, there is a trend to copy shallow and cheap things from that culture.
e.g. With the globalization, indians have picked up McDonald's, Denim jeans, american slangs and rock music real fast. They have not picked up the discipline, civic sense, responsible behavior of americans so readily.
This is just an example to prove that popular trend is not always desirable.
People who are capable of thinking should discriminate between good and bad and only encourage good stuff.
In our backward, counter-progressive language we call it
naIrxaIrivavaok
So too many people are doing x thing is not necessarily relevant in deciding if x is really good for the society or not.
Just because too many people are trying to stay away from Marathi does not mean making Marathi extinct is a good thing.
Marathi language is an integral part of Marathi culture. There are many things that can't be expressed in other languages especially English but can be in Marathi and that's because it's a not just a means of communication. So getting rid of Marathi also means doing a great damage to Marathi culture. As a Marathi I would oppose it.
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sauQaarkÊ tumhalaa jar evaZoca mhNaayacao Asaola kI english p`%yaokalaa yaoNaM AavaXayak Aaho...tr to AgadI yaÜgya Aaho. pNa tumacaa marazI ivarÜQaI saUr maa~ yaÜgya vaaTt naahI. jaMgala bauk marazItUna kaZlao tr %yaalaa ivarÜQa krNyaat kaya progress Aaho kahI kLalao naahI.]laT ek caaMgalaI ica~ÌtI AaNaKI jaast laÜkaMpya-nt pÜhÜcaola. tumhalaa marazIcaa kmaIpNaa ka vaaTtÜ Æ marazIt kolyaamauLo %yaa maUL klaaÌtItlaI majaa jaXaI cyaa tXaI ÉpaMtrIt hÜNaar naahI Asao tumhalaa vaaTto kaÆ to kdaicat Xa@yahI Aaho.kahI gaÜYTI marazIt jaXyaa cyaa tXyaa $paMtrIt krNao Xa@ya naahI ho kbaUla .. pNa %yaacao karNa dÜna saMsaÌtIMmaQaIla Ôrk ho Aaho. Aata ipzlaoÊ qaalaIpIzÊ EaawÊ ipMDÊ saMkYTIÊkÜjaigarIÊ KrkToÊ caaMdÜmaamaaÊKaÉta yaa gaÜYTI tumhalaa english maQao saaMgata yaotIla kaÆ
yaatlaa majaocaa Baaga saÜDUna do}.pNa AaplaI Bagavad\gaItaÊ TagaÜraMcaI gaItaMjalaI [. doXaI BaaYaaMmaQaIla saaih%yaÌtI english sah Anaok jaagaitk BaaYaot BaaYaaMtrIt Jaalyaa AahotÊ %yaat %yaaMcaIhI qaÜDI rsa hanaI JaalaI Asaolaca pNa %yaabarÜbarca %yaa klaaÌtI %yaamauLo jaastIt jaast laÜkaMpya-nt pÜhÜcalyaa hohI Kro.
Aaja english jaagaitk BaaYaa (global language of communication) banalaI Aaho. jagaaXaI saMvaad krNyaasaazI AaiNa Anaok ivaYayaaMvarcao &ana &ana imaLvaNyaasaazI enlglish KrÜKrca A%yaavaXyak Aaho.pNa %yaaca p`maaNao Aaplao saMskarÊ Aaplyaa caalaIirtIÊ AaplaI prmpra ho iXakNao pNa tovaZoca garjaocao naahI kaÆ karNa yaa sagaL\yaatUnaca tr Aaplao vyai>ma%va GaDto. AaiNa ho iXakNyaasazI p`%yaokalaa AaplaI maatRBaaYaa yaayalaaca hvaI.Aaplyaa BaaYaotlyaa Ajaramar saaih%yaÌtI vaacata yaoNyaasaazI.... AvaIT gaÜDIcaI AMgaagaItoÊ laÜk gaItoÊBaava gaIto eokNyaasaazI ...Aaplao saNa samaarMBa yaaMcao mah%va kLNyaasazI..... AXyaa AsaM#ya karNaaMsaazI Aaja AaplaI BaaYaa yaoNao tovaZoca garjaocao naahI kaÆ.
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prdoXaat 31 vaYao- rahUna malaa Asao vaaTto kI AaplaI BaaYaaÊ Aaplao saMskarÊ AaplaI ivacaarsarNaI na badlata yaXasvaI ir%yaa tumhI jagaBar kuzohI gaolaat trI rahU Xakta. %yaasaazIÊ svatÁcyaaca doXaat marazI saÜDUna Vayalaa nakÜ. tumhalaa kaya Asao vaaTto kaÊ kI maaNasaacaa maoMdU [tka lahana Aaho kI %yaalaa dÜna BaaYaa JaopNaar naahItÊ %yaalaa kLNaar naahI kI pOXaasaaiz mhNaUna Aaja prikyaaMbarÜbar vyavahar kravao laagatatÊ pNa to tovhD\yaa purtoca. ho sava- p`%yaokacyaa kuvatIvar AahoÊ p`%yaokacyaa ivacaarsarNaIvar Aaho. Aaplao Aacaar ivacaarÊ saMskar kayama zovaUna jagaat AiBamaanaanao vaagata yaoto. vaagaayacaI [cCa maa~ hvaI.
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Sudharak,
You have answerd though in unsatisfactiory way only one of the questions I raised. May be the problem is that I wrote about them in MaraThee.
I dont know about these people's grand children. Neither am interested. All I mean is Progressive is a broader term.
I would also like to know from you that how nations like Japan, Germany, China, Russia (USSR) and even Taiwan progressed when the medium almost exclusively is Vernacular language/s? They learn only necessary English. According to your ill-directed view, languages like French, German and Chinese which are used by a considerable population in world are also vernacular.
Further, can you explain why Education specialists all over the world favour vernacular medium?
Sudharak, I can understand if you personally feel that learning in English medium and condemning MaraThee or any other languages is progressive. For that would be your point of view. But why generalise? Please, in your beloved English language itself the term 'Progressive' has much wider meaning than choosing a certain language for education than other. And it certainly would not touch anything that has to do with condemning other languages. Now you would again look down upon this saying that this is being emotional. But you see, much of a language is about emotions also.
I dont like your tone of downrating MaraThee or other languages while favouring English. And I think many others share this view. Please take note of it. I am not here to be progressive or do not want to bring out any SudharaNa in u in this respect. All I wish is while expressing your views, you must respect other people's feelings about MaraThee especially on Maaybolee.
Maitreyee I fully agree with you. I too like English and consider its introduction in my curriculum was beneficial. But I too think that it has nothing to do with thinking maraThee or other languages backward.
Archis, sorry but this is not a 'dhamal' topic for s'one to start others fretting. If someone is criticising our language, however smartly and with apparent politeness, it is not correct to encourage him even in sarcastic way. I beg your pardon for saying it bluntly. I am sincerely sorry for that.
Moderators, I agree about not getting personal but would it be too much to expect that one should not condemn MaraThee as being backward on Maaybolee? The beautiful language is the thread that is binding all of us togather-including people who dislike it. I think we must respect it and see to it that it is respected by others.
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Moderator,
personal comments karaayla nako he khara aahe, pan malatari mi jya kahi comments kelya aahet tyabaddal kinchitahee khed waaTat nahi. aata yaala koDagepaNaa mhaNaa kinwa matrubhashewaril prem mhaNa. Ekhadya sensible topic war samorchyachya wicharanna 'respect' deun charcha karNe mala dekhil aawaDte, paN samorcha nirlajjapaNachya seemewar pochlyawar aapaN kiti sahan karNaar? zoplelyala uThawta yeta, pan zopecha song ghetlelyala nahi uthawta yet...
Zakki, beTi, maitreyi,
mi tumchya wicharanshi purNapaNe sahamat aahet. maaze wichar mala itakya sabhyapaNe manDta aale nahit, but who cares...?
Tushar
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