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	Archive through July 18, 2003	35	07-18-03  12:08 pm

Pallavi Friday, July 18, 2003 - 12:20 pm:      abedekar, I agree with you 100% because me and my husband both have experienced the graduate student life. storvi, zakkini tyanchya post madhe ase lihile aahe: "anubhawawarun mhanayche tar fakt june bharatiya aani american yanchyashi amche patate. navin bharatiy ithle kinwa tithle yanchya shi amche patat nahi." mhanun mala ha prasha padla. tumhi mhanta tumche hi kahise tasech hote te ka hote? hope to get to know the other side of the coin from you and zakki.

Keya Friday, July 18, 2003 - 2:59 pm:      laalau tuJyaa p`Xnaacao sarLÊ faTo na fÜDta ]<ar ³ ´ mhNajao KalaIla karNao dota yaotIla 1. BaartatUna kuNaIhI p`qama prdoXaat yaotat tovha tulanaonao ek saurxaIt jaga saÜDUna saMpUNa-pNao pr@yaa vaatavarNaat yaotat. %yaamauLo insecurity vaaTuna Aaplyaaca doXaatIla laÜkaMbarÜbar imasaL\NyaacaI naOsaiga-k p`vaR<aI Asato. samaana vaatavarNaatUna AalyaamauLo saur jauLtat va kalaaMtranao p@ko hÜtat. %yaaMcyaa saamaaijak garjaa kmaI AsatIla tr yaa vatu-LatUna baahor pDNyaacaI %yaaMnaa inakD Baasat naahI. 2. karNa nasatanaa Asalaolaa inferior complex %yaamauLo kQaI kQaI [cCa AsaUnahI %yaaMnaa yaa laÜkaMmaQyao imasaLta yaot naahI ikMvaa %yaavar mayaa-da yaotat. 3. prdoXaatIla saMsaÌtIba_laÊ laÜkaMba_la Asalaolao gaOrsamajaÊ kQaI kQaI A&ana. 4. kahI vaYaa-naI laÜk prt maayadoXaat jaaNaar AsatIla tr [qalyaa laÜkaMba_laÊ saMsaÌtIba_la AsalaolaI ]daisanata. 5. kQaI kQaI sqaainak laÜkaMkDUna Aalaolao vaa[T AnauBava. tsaoca Aaid%ya mhNatÜ tI karNao doiKla Aahotca. yaa sava- AnauBavaatUna maI doiKla gaolaolaI Aaho. %yaamauLo AXaa pirsqaItImaQaIla laÜkaMnaa samajaUna Gao] Xakto. pNa A+ahasaanao babala maQyao rahNaaáyaa laÜkaMcaI manaÜvaR<aI samajaU Xaklao naahI. malaa yao]na 8 vaYao- JaalaI %yaamauLo far naivana naahI ikMvaa far jaunaI doiKla naahI. Aata yaoNaaáyaa kahI naivana laÜkaMcao va jaunyaa ‘jaaNa%yaa’ laÜkaMcao kahI maasalaovaa[k namaunaodoiKla BaoTlao. to AnauBava lavakrca ilaihna

Zakki Friday, July 18, 2003 - 9:27 pm:      baap ro Aaca-Ê naivana laÜkaMba_la baroca ilaihlao Aahosa. Aata %yaaMnaa jar Krca Asao vaaTt Asaola kI to [qao ]pkar krayalaa Aalao Aahot ina %yaaMcyaaiXavaaya [qalyaa kMpnyaa caalaNaar naahIt [. tr %yaaMcyaa vyavahar&anaacaIÊ gavaa-caI kIva kravaI tovhZI qaÜDIca² QaMVamaQao kuiNa kÜNaavar ]pkar krt naahIt. Aqaa-tca %yaa laÜkaMcyaa kamaacaa djaa- inadana acceptable trI AsatÜ AaiNa iXavaaya to baáyaaca kmaI pOXaat kama krtat mhNaUna %yaaMnaa [qao baÜlaavatat. pllavaIÊ storvi Ê navyaa laÜkaMXaI pTt naahI Asao kahI naahIÊ f> to Aamacyaa maanaanaI vayaanao lahana. %yaaMcao p`Xna inaraLoÊ Aamacao inaraLo. AamhI BaoTlaÜ kI saMiQavaatÊ r>dabaÊ bye-pass surgery, breast cancer, ho AÝYaQa caaMgalao kI toÊ vyaayaama iktI ³kmaI´ kolaa trI purola AXyaa gahna ivaYayaaMvar cacaa- krtÜ. to maa~ baby sitter Ê baby milk formula Ê far tr far maulao high school maQao koMvha jaaNaar [. saaQao ivaYayaÊ ikMvaa XahamaRga KanaÊ salavaar kimaja KanaÊ Asalao naT ³kI nut ´Ê imaXaaÊ daZI naavaacyaa heroins, K3GBHDFTGYRE Asalyaa naavaacao isanaomaoÊ ikMvaa holland AaiNa namibia yaaMcyaa cricket match Ê Asalyaa Agamya ivaYayaaMcaI cacaa- krtat. AamhI trI kuNaalaahI H1 ka ksao Aalaat to ivacaart naahI. pNa toca jar Aaca- nao saaMigatlyaap`maaNao barLayalaa laagalao tr manaatlyaa manaat ‘tuJyaa NCT laoka’ mhNauna dusarIkDo jaatÜ.

Abedekar Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:02 pm:      zakki, a comment here - there may be a difference in conversation topics because of the generation gap - but your post makes it sound as if the topics they talk about are either frivolous or inferior compared to yours. they came to the US in a different generation than you did, and they have their own set of problems to deal with ... arch: you may have spent a good deal more time than i hve in the US, but i dont think people (even those coming from india for very short periods) behave like you say. these are more exceptions than the norm. is there a possibility that like the arguement currently prevailing on hitguj, "newcomers" are not easily welcome into an "oldtimers" circle ? [i guess hitguj is after all a mirror on society]. i do agree with keya's post above. i do not wish to digress from the topic of this BB, but am starting to think that there seems to be some degree of prejudice prevailing as well .... i dont mean any of the comments personally

Storvi Friday, July 18, 2003 - 10:26 pm:      Abe, If I understand correctly, he is talking about generation gap (the indication that these topics sound frivolous to him is humor) and I agree, I have yet to meet such Inidans, who do not mix with the soc. as Arch says. But I have met quite a few Tamilians who will not talk to firangs(obviously not in an office environment but outside of there) I have seen these people never make freindships outside of their group. To cite an example, almost all developers in my company are indians. These guys get along famously (including myself). But when it comes to lunches/dinners they organize parties amongst themselves(i.e. indians) now a group of people who know each other from workplace should not have this kind of a criteria, if you ask me. but it does happen. and if I ask I have got wierd looks, as though I belong to a different planet. When I go ut to lunch with "firangs" (I must say until mom came , I used to eat out a lot) they would comment, saying she very rarely brings lunch so she seeks out people to go out to lunch with.. But because of that I have become very good friends with non-indians also at work, where as these guys have not. and I think this is the buble that all these people are refering to....

Atul Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 12:07 am:      samaajaat ‘babala’sa AsaNaarcaÊ karNa ‘samaana XaIlao vyasanaoXau sa#yama’ ³caU.BaU.Va.Gyaa´. pNa jar ho babalsa ABaoV AsatIla tr maa~ mauiYkla Aaho.

Zakki Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 2:12 pm:      Abe, If I understand correctly, he is talking about generation gap (the indication that these topics sound frivolous to him is humor) storvi tulaa AMitma sa%ya samajaNyaasaazI Jaona kqaa vaacaayalaa nakÜÊ tulaa AMitma sa%ya AaQaIca samajalao Aaho. Aata malaa pNa Storvi p`maaNao laÜkaMXaI maO~I krayalaa AavaDto. mhNaUnaca maI maayabaÜlaIvar yaotÜ ina generation gap or not Ê maaJao [qalyaa baáyaaca jaNaaMXaI jamatoÊ jasao storvi Ê h. h. [. AataXaa %yaaMcaI saM#yaa kmaI JaalaI AahoÊ mhNaUna maI punaÁ kdaicat\ bubble maQao jaašna pNa %yaava$na kahI generalization krNyaasaarKo naahI. Statistics maQao ik%yaokda kahI kahI data, analysis maQao Qart naahIt karNa %yaava$na sausaMgat inaYkYa- inaGat naahIt. maaJaI case tXaIca samajaa. f> AXaI kahI ]dahrNao Asatat ho laxaat Gyaa.

Pallavi Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 9:37 pm:      Did I miss arch's post? everybody has referenced to her writing but i dont see it. zakki tumche navya lokanshi 'generation gap' mule patat nahi he theek aahe... (pan mag maayboli warchya lokanshi 'generation gap or not' kase patate? ;-) ) and storvi what about u? barr bubble baddal me kahi bollech nahiye :p abedekar ni aadhi mhanlya pramanech, ithe grad life experience kelyamule we were exposed to different cultures which was a very interesting part of being outside india. i also agree with keya. another aspect of 'bubbles'. indiat astana kiti jananche marathi na bolnare close friend circle hote? ithe yeun aapan amru lokanchyat mix zale pahije wagare theek aahe... pan aapan open mindedly non-maharashtrian (desi) lokanna aplyat samawun gheto ka?

Mukund Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:58 am:      first few agreements-- I agree with Abedekars (and Pallavi)assesment that people who came here for graduate studies have differant outlook and experience.As usual Keya's posting is very logical and I agree with the posiible reasons she enumerated for explaining bubble mentality and as usual storvis views are well balanced.I totally agree with Beti's views and outlook when she is living abroad.I think she is using the apportunity of living abroad in a way which is an example for how one can enrich ones own life and personality by coming out of just finanacial gain mode of thinking when living abroad.Zakki whether conciously or subconciously,you still acted and behaved the way one should when living abroad so I will not consider you as a person in bubble. Now somebody asked me if I had done enough to fullfill my obligation toward Indian society since I spent first 23 yrs in India.I dont think this a a forum to enumerate things I did for people back home but its suffice to say that I had,I am and I will continue to do the volunteer and charity work back home using my noble profession not as an obligation but because it is a right thing to do.I do similar things in USA too. My view of world is a global view ,I consider the society I have chose to live and earn money as my society,to whom I owe far more than just paying taxes and abiding laws in criminal sense.As a member of society you have other civic responsibilities otherwise people who are content with limited view of not bothering anybody,i am just happy with me and my family etc etc causes incidences like incident happened recently in subarban Mumbai railway where a 12 yrs old girl got raped in front of 6 onlookers with similar mentality!(what differance it makes? I will look elsewhere!I pay taxes! thats all my obligation to society!)If in place of that 12yr old girl if it was one of us who had their daughter sure we would have expected people in our society to come forward and help her! wouldnt you all agree? those are the times when you need help of your fellow people who have broader sense of civic responsibility!God forbid such helpless child goes thro similar experience abroad but at that time what if natives say hey! this girl is not my own kind! she is Indian!why should I help her when these Indians dont think of themselves as a part of this society?they never mix with us! they never help us! please dont comment yet! I still have some more to say. I am writing it but post was geting too long so I will make it in 2 parts!

Mukund Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 1:40 am:      As for somebody comparing our stay abroad as Britsh invaders who came to India! I would like to point out that please check your reasons you came abroad!did you come with Britsh mentality to squeeze everthing out of country you are living? At least I did not come for that reason!I came for my higher education and along with good money I had other things on my mind too!such as willing to take chances and see how high I can reach in my profession without facing rampant corruption,see new world,new society which fascinated me because of the principles it is based on which I enumerated in my last post!where else than USA you can meet chinese,korean,mexican,cuban,nigerian,philipino,keneyn,ukranian,irish,italian,german,british all at same place without going to their countries!reading about them is differant and actually meeting them ,seeing their culture is differant! To mee meting all these people and learning little bit about all of them enriches me in my view of this world which is more like a global village in todays world of information age!I think we all need to know more and more about each other in todays shrinking world economy and mixing of societies intersts.When I say to know doesnt mean you have to be boosm budies with all of them but at least be friendly withthem,mix with them,get to know them little bit!While doing that I am not at all saying you forget your Indian heritage! I am still a proud maharashtrian and Indian! I participate in all local Indian activities,celebrate major festivals in local Indian community and in our own home but I still have good friends in lot of differant cultures.I agree with Pallavi, Even among Indian friends I dont have only maharashtrian friends,I have good gujraathi,tamil,telgu fiends,in fact I make effort to call them to our house in lot of our get togethers ,not just Marathi people!I like to know differant people,evenifthey are of differant race,religion or culture.Even on Mybolli I like differant people not because they are new or old or ifthey are from Mumbai or Pune! thats a very shallow reason. I like Asami,sasuli,aaditya ranade,abedekar,Keya for their logical and very sensible views,I like Storvi,Arch for their progressive and thought provoking thinking,ajjuka,sami for their passion in everything they write,I like Beti and hawahawii,rahul phatak and many others for their literary skills,I like ashischaskar for his ability to critic,comment and keep us posted with various current affairs,I like shrini for his stoic,zen view and vast knowledge he shows in his stories and writings,I like deep intellectual discussions of ashicg,prashant,prafull with their discussion about knowledge,I like zakki and athak for their humor and wittiness,i like all those parody songs of parsadshir and many other writers on vinodi likhan,I like punekars diary, and I like my fellow balmohankar on balmohan bb for our nostalgic talk there! so point is there is a joy in variety!if you just live in new/old group when on maayboli you will miss out on many things! dont you all agree folks?so imagine on broader scale of this world how much you will miss out on if you live in a bubble! Anyway its hard to enumerate 1 or 2 things people in bubble miss,hope my postings gave enough reasons to see world out of bubble,not that I am forcing anybody to come out of their cozy bubble!

Pooh Monday, July 21, 2003 - 4:46 pm:      I think we are generalizing too much. I don't think in general FOBs are consciously trying to stay in their bubble neither are old timers trying to avoid FOBs. It may be as simple as doing what you are comfortable with. When you are new to a country you do not know the customs and culture, so you are trying to get together with people who are in the same boat as you. Since the oldtimers have been here for a while they have more local things to discuss than FOBs might and they are not interested in Holland vs Namibia cricket match but they may be interested Packers and 49ers football or Lakers and Spurs basketball. As these newcomers get acclimatized to the new country and culture they start coming out of the "bubble".Pepole who came here as students typically get that time to acclimatize before they get into work culture which H1Bs do not. Lastly, those who do not come out of "bubble" no matter how long they stay in any country-in my opinion-are few and far between and if they doing this consciously then they are truly losing a great opportunity to learn about another culture.

Abedekar Monday, July 21, 2003 - 6:36 pm:      desis in general dont take much to american sports has been my guess ... most, if at all will take to basketball (when the playoffs begin). as a general rule ... desis dont take to football, hockey, baseball unless the superbowl, stanley cup or worldseries comes around ... except perhaps the local team from time to time. i think that is a reasonable generalization, irrespective of whether you have been here 6 months, 6 years or 16 years

Storvi Monday, July 21, 2003 - 8:33 pm:      >>and storvi what about u? >> huh?? and I thought I got along fine with new comers, maybe I was wrong? >>indiat astana kiti jananche marathi na bolnare close friend circle hote? >> Maze hote, some of my very close friends were, gujrathi, sindhi, kannadigas and such others...but then my case is different. I was raised in NDA which is largely multi-ethnic.

Pallavi Monday, July 21, 2003 - 9:15 pm:      storvi, may be u do get along well with new comers. i especially asked you because u had mentioned in one of your posts, "ani mala zakkincha patata.. amcha hi kahisa tyanchya sarkhach ahe" ... i wasnt sure tula tyanche 'navin lokanshi farse patat nahi' he patate ki ajun kahi i hope u dont have any hard feelings!

Storvi Monday, July 21, 2003 - 9:57 pm:      Pallavi, zakkinche "navin generation" shi na patnya baddal me ani tyannihi khulasa dila ahe... nahi mala itar goshti patatat as in, social circle freinds, office etc. baddal tyanni je sangitla ahe te... no I don't have any hard feelings, mala tuzhya question cha artha lagla nahi mhanoon vicharle...

Dante Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 5:49 pm:      Namaskar mandali, mala patlele tatva evdhech ahe: Ayushya maryadit ahe, ani ghatana kram anant. Pratyek navya ghatanela titkyach tivratene pratikriya dene mansala ashakya ahe. Mhanun manse jashi juni hot jatat tashi jast jast parichit ghatanashi svatala bandhun ghetat. Ata ithe ameriket lokana sarkhe nave anubhav havet ashi haav aste. Aple lok ya babtit jara char pavle magech ahet. Ithe ale tarihi mazya 100 mitra paiki fakt ekane surfing (kharekhure) kelele mala mahit ahe, bungy suddha ekanech (tyach lekane), parachuting kunihi nahi. Our people prefer the known devils. Ase astana hich vrutti olkhi palkhi thevnyat ani vadhavnyat disli tar tumhi charcha kashala kartay?

Storvi Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:32 pm:      charchetun kahi artha bodh hovun tyatun for the better badalta yenyasathi...

Dante Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:08 pm:      Storvi, arth bodh ani bhalya karta badal yene he changlech uddishta ahe. Pan ata mi hi charcha ekdam mulapasun vachali, ani outsider perspective ka kay tase jhale, ani vatle ki dongar pokhrun shevti undirach nighatoy. Intellectual charcha kitihi zali tari shevti pratyek jan apapale comfort zone sambhalato, preferences sambhalto. Tevha je lok apla apla bubble banavu pahatat tyana te svatantrya asave ani tumhala kunahi barobar lunch interesting karayla jayla milave asech maze mhanane ahe. Tyat charcha kashala, ase mi mhanalo. Khara prashna yeto te eka bajune dusrya bajuchla comfort zone chya baher yayla sangitle tar. Mag kuni kunache ka aikave etc suru hote, ti vegli charcha ahe, relational politics chi ;-)

Storvi Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:30 pm:      >>Intellectual charcha kitihi zali tari shevti pratyek jan apapale comfort zone sambhalato, preferences sambhalto>> Dante very true, pun V&C varchya kuthlyahi charchet hech disun yeil tumhala. Pan nidan lokanni vichar kela yatun ani 100 tla 1 manus jari badalla tari uhapoh swagatarh ahe ase nahi ka vatat? ata kon barobar kon nahi ha mudda gaun ahe, pan ya doho paiki kuthlahi marga vicharanti follow kelela bara, dole zakun karnya peksha right?

Dante Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:52 pm:      >>ani 100 tla 1 manus jari badalla tari uhapoh swagatarh ahe ase nahi ka vatat? Mi exactly yalach uddeshun magashi smiley takla hota. Ekda V&C mhanlya nantar samorchyala badlaychi ichha sodun dili tar bare. Nahi tar to prachar zala. Ani samorchyala jar badlaychech asel tar intellectual charche sarkha inefficient upay nahi. Badal ha samorchychya ego la dhakka lavun ghadavane jitke avghad titkech tyachya ego la phulvun ghadavane sope. int. charcha nivval ego nchi hanamari aste. Badal anayla tyache kay kaam? Ani jar ekhadyala swatacha marg 'vicharanti' ch jar follow karaycha asel tar itarankadun tyala fakt data hava asto views nahit. Ithe zaleli charcha hi data driven charcha ahe ki view driven he tumhi suddha janun ahatach. Jaude nahi tar mi hi tumchyashi charcha ch suru keli ase vhayche oV

Storvi Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 8:04 pm:      Dante, interesting point, tumchya hya charche/pracharala me bali paDale.. I accede...

Dante Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 8:30 pm:      Sorry Storvi, tumhala prayukti ne shabdat pakdave ha hetu navhta maza. Maza POV realist bajucha padto and ithe sagle idealist ahet ase vatate. Tyamule yach nahi tar itar baryach BB baddal hi mala tase vatate. Harkat nahi mhana, graduate school chya kalat amhi 'bubble-oo' mitranihi weekend chya ratri jagavalya ahet vada vadi madhe, ani amche gore mitra maitrini matra itar guljar karnani ratri jagvat asat. Ata yat vel kunacha karni lagla, te apan kay sangave ba? Svatachi fasavnook karayche anek prakar astat mansanche mhanyche ani sodun dyayche zale, ugich gammat. cheers

Storvi Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 8:53 pm:      arechya sorry kay, kharokharach manoman mudda patla (ata kahi shur vir yeun, mala mudda patla mhanoon ithe party kartil bahuda ) , mhanoon accede ase mhatle, me ya drushtikonatun kadhi pahilech navhte....

Mukund Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 9:01 pm:      Dante: aho tumhala kaay watate te tumhihi lihitach aahat!aani tyaachsaaathi haa forum aahe!idealist/realist,bubloo/nonbubloo,nawe/joone ase chalayachach ho! me mhaNato ki tyanech he jag jaast interesting banate nahitar ekach prakarchyaa manassanii he jag bharale asate tar kiti kantalwane zale asate he jag!maze mhaNaNe ekach aahe ki suwarNamadhya jari ashakya asala tari to saadhya karayacha prayatna karawa ewadhech!(instead of sticking to the extreme side of any view, i.e. why stick to dichotomy?) naahitar nantar uparati vayalaa nako ki aapanahi guljar karNaani raatri jaagwalya asatya tar!(big smily here!)

Dante Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 9:15 pm:      Mukund, Agdi yogya, ugich charcha nako ashi charcha karne kay kamache. Nahi tar kagad banavayla amazon madhli jangle padli he hi aplyala PAPER vachunach kalte, tashyatla prakar. Tumchya doctor ki chi prashnottare vachun hi mala kahi prashna urale ahet, te mi tithe takin mhanto, pan asa mokla divas milayla suddha ya mahine jatat madhye. ER vishyich ahet.

Mukund Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 9:29 pm:      Dante: anytime! I will do my best to answer but please read that bb also carefully as u did this one, including my disclaimer!

Adityaranade Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 2:02 pm:      ek chnagali churcha miss zaali. Mee ither baryaach ushira aalo ase disate..parantu nantar vachanyaat dekhil maja aali. thanks for an interesting discussion people!

Champak Monday, July 12, 2004 - 2:30 pm:      Aaid%ya­­ tu jara jaas%ca ]XaIra Aalaaya. 22 jaulaO 2003 to 11 jaulaO 2004........